As I just did for the Momentus thread, I thought I'd start a new thread for this "Personal Prophecy" subject, to see whether the conversation gets going again. So far, I've stayed off this thread, as Follower, Mark Coomer, CT, and others have done a pretty decent job of presenting the case against "personal prophecy" and refuting the weak attempts of its supporters to find any scriptural evidence for the concept as currently practiced by CES and other, hyper-charismatic or dominionistic organizations. But as the thread seems to have died down, I thought I'd see whether we could get it restarted by issuing, as I did with the Momentus thread, a formal challenge to any supporters of this unscriptural "personal prophecy" practice (and specifically the leaders of CES, if they'll deign to join the conversation on their own message board):

The challenge is this: Produce solid scriptural evidence that clearly and unquestionably supports "personal prophecy" as practiced by CES and its followers--that is, scriptures in the New Testament church epistles that specifically instruct ordinary New Testament believers of the church of the Body to (and describe how to) give personal, directive prophecy to other believers privately (or otherwise not as part of a general exhortative prophecy to the assembled church [ekklesia] as a whole), at the request of the person who's receiving the "personal prophecy" (i.e., prophecy on demand) or provide an example from the book of Acts (post-Pentacost) that show any such believers (other than those with the office of a Prophet or Apostle) actually and unquestionably giving such a prophecy as initiated by the person seeking the prophecy (instead of the person being directed by God to do so on a special occasion).

Again, I'm talking about something that shows this to be the rule for all spirit-filled believers and not a special exception (which God, as part of His sovereignty can, of course, do) and that parallels *exactly* the practice currently taught and demonstrated by CES and its followers.

If you can't do so (and I frankly don't believe you can, because such scriptures don't exist), then at least be honest in your silence in admitting that the practice is *not* scriptural but at best is soulish and comes from the flesh (and, at worst, is the operation of a spirit of divination, as *is* demonstrated in Acts in the closest example to what CES claims is "personal prophecy"--except that even that wasn't initiated by the subjects of the "prophecy").

So far, all I've seen pulled out by supporters of this erroneous teaching are irrelevant scriptures that show no resemblance to the current practice, are the result of a prophet's giving of a prophecy, or require the person to read his document into a scripture that doesn't really objectively support the doctrine. And *none* of them show an example of a "personal prophecy" being given to someone who comes up and asks for it (or "a reading" as I've heard it called in CES and other circles).

So that's the challenge: Provide specific scriptures that support your "personal prophecy" doctine exactly or admit by your silence or inability to do so that the doctrine is not scriptural, not of God, and is coming out of your own fleshly desires for "power," and for more "signs and wonders" (which Jesus says that a wicked generation seeks).

Let the challenge begin.

If this isn't bull in it's height. I don't know what is. As if someone's silence is proof that there view is not substancial. And as he has the right to draw the line and make the conditions as to silence admitting that your views are not scriptual. I say silence here is wisdom. This permeates the attitudes of the know it all in my view. You want to work the word with this attitude?? This mouth reveals arrogance to me. But if your into dueling, go for it.

Indeed, silence is wisdom if you are bound to support "personal prophecy" at all costs. Because, as Truth Seeker points out, there is no scriptural support for the practice.

Practitioners of "personal prophecy" will not even claim 100 percent accuracy for their sayings, which is in direct violation of the standards for prophecy set by Moses. Yet still they continue on. Now what kind of "arrogance" is that?

As I've demonstrated beyond any shadow of a doubt, "personal prophecy" is the invention of charismatic dominionists, preachers of a false gospel, in their quest for control of the world and your personal life.

In TWI we used to say "chapter and verse, please" when we doubted a doctrine. Isn't that what Truth Seeker has done? Isn't that what we all should do?

Silence is a very telling response. Be honest with yourself; if there was scripture to support "personal prophecy" you can be sure it would be triumphantly plastered all over this board in a New York minute.

Mark

Wow, thanks for re-opening this one. A book I finished recently was by John Bevere called "Thus Saith the Lord?" It lays out scripturally why he believes the Personal Prophecy Movement is in error.

Lots of scripture against it. I'd rather live my life with God giving me direct personal Revelation. It's between me and God only.

Amen, and thanks for the tip, Newday. We should all get that book and read it. If we want others to get free from darkness we have to become experts. Mark

I also think it foolish to accuse someone's silence as admission of being wrong or "guilt." In fact, I believe our Lord chose the same response to his accusers. Quite an example, don't you think?
I am by no means an expert on the subject, and am not really defending PP, but by Truth Seeker's own logic, it must have been very fleshy of those fellows on Penticost to be speaking those tongues, cause I'm sure Paul hadn't penned some instructions about it. As a matter of fact, the Corinthians and others must have been speeking in tongues for many years before their correction was given via Paul.
Finally, I don't believe CES created this site to debate folks about every doctrine they diagree with. I thought it was to answer questions that believers had about doctrine, according to their (CES) research and position. If one does not agree, fine, move on to other sites; or start your own ministry where you are free to promote your position on doctrine.

Truth Seeker, Jerry, Mark et al.,

I mention this book for everyone, even the guys at CES. I believe they have pure hearts and want to continue to grow and learn.

This book, if they haven't read it, (just published in 1999) may give them food for thought as well. They are free to draw their own conclusions as much as anyone.

We are all in this life together and truthfully, the road is not as well marked as I wish it was.

Truth Seeker - as much as I agree with your desire to hear CES respond to some of the issues raised on this board, I don't think any of us can force them to respond by re-defining silence as anything other than silence. If they want to respond, they will. If they don't want to respond, they won't. So far, they have chosen to remain silent (in substance, despite M. Graeser's recent post) and let readers draw their own conclusions. If we are truly telling the leaders of CES things that God wants us to tell them, then we aren't telling them anything that God hasn't already told them in their hearts. God's words are the real moving force here, not mine or yours.

Newday - thanks for the tip about "Thus Saith The Lord"! I went out yesterday and bought a copy, and read it last night. Bevere believes in genuine prophecy, so he doesn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, but he does examine the causes and damage done by the unscriptural excesses sweeping the Church in connection with personal prophecy. Throughout the book, he bases his arguments on scripture, and he demonstrates the damage done to Israel by abuses of prophecy in the days of Isaiah and Jeremiah, and the warnings against false prophecy in the gospels and the book of Revelation. It was a real eye-opener. I recommend this book to anyone who has been, or may possibly be, exposed to the doctrines and practices surrounding what we call personal prophecy.

Love,
Steve

Wisdom in your words Steve.This here demonsrates to me more a heart of expounding unto them the word of God more perfectly. And surely God will verify his word in our hearts. Challenging people to duel I think brings out the defences and puts up walls to learning. We will each hold fast to our own sword as not to get struck by the other. We are not to use the word for our own ego to show others how much we know accurately or to lift ourselves up for others to admire but to lift up the Lord. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifes. The sword of the spirit will bring life and will destroy the enemy and never destroy the beleiver. The sword of the spirit is to engrave or to cut the word into our hearts that our lives may become living stones of witness of Christ. No one needs to tell anyone how right they are. Others will be able to see that themselves. Christianity I do not believe was designed to axalt a few who are accuate to show others how much they know and therefore get a great deal of recognition, a tithe, and a new car every year. All of God's gift's are given by grace- unmerited favour- to build up the body of Christ. Not to bring attention to the person but to God. Jesus's prayer was that we may all be one in Him. I believe that our fellowship with God is the purpose of the calling. To bring back that which has become seperate from God. I think this problem started in Genesis. Ministrries are not to bring attention to the group-ministry-pastor-music-entertainment-social events-denomination- but to encourage fellowship with God. Get rid of things that put our focus on the events rather than our Lord. So what if a great structure falls or a denomination. Some need to come down for Christ to be put back in His proper place. In our hearts. Love, Rm